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meridian_roseIt's hard to go one week without coming across a Tumblr post, Youtube comment, or comment on a newspaper article that posits sex as vital and asexuals as (a) liars/sick bastards in need of medicating, and/or (b) incapable of being in a romantic relationship.
Some articles in agony columns will say that sex is not important or is only as important as the individuals in a relationship believe it to be. Others insist sex is really important – that sex is the difference between marriage and being roommates. (Where "fuck buddy" roommates fit in is anyone's guess)
One study found that
That's what interests me most in a 'ship' between friends or romantic partners; aspects like trust and respect, nonsexual intimacies, banter. In ships were the characters are often serious and contained, showing their playful side or their vulnerabilities is a huge turn-on, and shows how important and trustworthy they deem their partner to behave in these ways.
I don't read a lot of PWP even though I often enjoy erotic fiction. For me there has to be some deeper connection, some emotional intimacy if I'm to enjoy reading about a relationship. I'm also interested in various kinks, so lots of touching of hair, or the fact that he's wearing a uniform, or that they're having sex on a desk or in a shower excites me more than basic PIV bedroom sex.
I think the only orig fic PWP I've written was An Intimate Moment, where the couple meet, feel an attraction, and leave the club to have sex. Although even here there was a weighing up of qualities both physical and character wise, before the decision was made.
In fanfic, I try to touch on why the erotic focus is there; in the PWP LotS fic Foreplay I imply for the purposes of the story that Darken is attracted to Richard, but the backstory is already there, his jealousy of his brother, his love of domination and thus having Richard at his mercy. If I'm shipping characters who haven't got a romantic/sexual relationship in canon I usually try to spend some time developing their relationship in ways other than sex before having them jump into bed. I also write threesomes* and touch on things like age-gap relationships, still fairly underrepresented in fanfic.
In original fic, I'm usually writing about relationships that go way beyond physical attraction. Some characters have fairly casual attitudes to sex while some characters think of sex as important, even sacred, and not to be entered into lightly. Relationships however are always much more than this. There can be sex and no relationship. There can be a relationship and no sex. There can be a sexual relationship, but the sexual part is the least important aspect of the 'ship'. I'm not interested in the "one night stand" phenomenon beyond the disposable nature of such encounters. I'm far more interested in how the characters feel about each other and how they act towards each other and work/live alongside each other.
As a counterpoint to all the "not really a relationship" bs and the anger I feel over it, I'm going to write some fic (and maybe some meta/character descriptions) addressing sex and relationships in the various orig fic verses I write in. These ficlets might be a little less polished. Some will be canon. Some will be canon that might not appear in the finished product but exist as backstory/character development. A few might not necessarily be canon, but an exploring of potential ideas. All the pieces will have a tag fic series: caras where CARAS is an acronym for Character Attitudes to Relationships And Sex.
*I also have a lot of thoughts about love triangles and having to choose and shilly-shallying back and froth between partners (Pacey/Joey/Dawson of Dawson's Creek is a particularly frustrating example), the bs that you can't be attracted to more than one person at a time, and why we should look at non-monogamous options, but that's a whole other rant and fic series
Some articles in agony columns will say that sex is not important or is only as important as the individuals in a relationship believe it to be. Others insist sex is really important – that sex is the difference between marriage and being roommates. (Where "fuck buddy" roommates fit in is anyone's guess)
One study found that
"Romantic relationships are, at their core, friendships….benefits come from valuing friendship specifically, rather than any other aspect of the relationship (e.g., the sexual aspect). "
That's what interests me most in a 'ship' between friends or romantic partners; aspects like trust and respect, nonsexual intimacies, banter. In ships were the characters are often serious and contained, showing their playful side or their vulnerabilities is a huge turn-on, and shows how important and trustworthy they deem their partner to behave in these ways.
I don't read a lot of PWP even though I often enjoy erotic fiction. For me there has to be some deeper connection, some emotional intimacy if I'm to enjoy reading about a relationship. I'm also interested in various kinks, so lots of touching of hair, or the fact that he's wearing a uniform, or that they're having sex on a desk or in a shower excites me more than basic PIV bedroom sex.
I think the only orig fic PWP I've written was An Intimate Moment, where the couple meet, feel an attraction, and leave the club to have sex. Although even here there was a weighing up of qualities both physical and character wise, before the decision was made.
It wasn't his blue eyes that attracted her so much as the way they swept the area, assessing it just as she had done when she entered. This was a man who knew where all the exits were, who had positioned himself at the bar where he could use the mirrored glass behind it to check his perimeter, and who held himself with a confidence that suggested he'd been tried, tested and not found wanting. This was prey worth stalking, and if her instincts were correct, the sort who would appreciate the game.
In fanfic, I try to touch on why the erotic focus is there; in the PWP LotS fic Foreplay I imply for the purposes of the story that Darken is attracted to Richard, but the backstory is already there, his jealousy of his brother, his love of domination and thus having Richard at his mercy. If I'm shipping characters who haven't got a romantic/sexual relationship in canon I usually try to spend some time developing their relationship in ways other than sex before having them jump into bed. I also write threesomes* and touch on things like age-gap relationships, still fairly underrepresented in fanfic.
In original fic, I'm usually writing about relationships that go way beyond physical attraction. Some characters have fairly casual attitudes to sex while some characters think of sex as important, even sacred, and not to be entered into lightly. Relationships however are always much more than this. There can be sex and no relationship. There can be a relationship and no sex. There can be a sexual relationship, but the sexual part is the least important aspect of the 'ship'. I'm not interested in the "one night stand" phenomenon beyond the disposable nature of such encounters. I'm far more interested in how the characters feel about each other and how they act towards each other and work/live alongside each other.
As a counterpoint to all the "not really a relationship" bs and the anger I feel over it, I'm going to write some fic (and maybe some meta/character descriptions) addressing sex and relationships in the various orig fic verses I write in. These ficlets might be a little less polished. Some will be canon. Some will be canon that might not appear in the finished product but exist as backstory/character development. A few might not necessarily be canon, but an exploring of potential ideas. All the pieces will have a tag fic series: caras where CARAS is an acronym for Character Attitudes to Relationships And Sex.
*I also have a lot of thoughts about love triangles and having to choose and shilly-shallying back and froth between partners (Pacey/Joey/Dawson of Dawson's Creek is a particularly frustrating example), the bs that you can't be attracted to more than one person at a time, and why we should look at non-monogamous options, but that's a whole other rant and fic series
Les Grande Chaleurs
Date: 2013-10-19 06:31 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-10-20 09:35 am (UTC)Hopefully you now understand why I place less emphasis on sex scenes as a whole. One of the things I love about Arnaud is this interview
Host: Here is something you once said – and ladies you will like this one: “Intimacy, contrary to what we may think, is not only in sex scenes. Sometimes it’s in the dialogues, when skins are slightly touching, or in the way we look at each other… That’s when complicity rises. That’s what is the most difficult to develop, because in the sex scenes, there is nothing else to do than the movements.” So for you, talking is more intimate than screwing?
FA: It’s at least as intimate. And I think that it’s… The idea is that… I think that sometimes nudity and sex can be (hesitant)… hot… (smiling) (Everyone giggles). But, but… (giggling)… But I think that emotional nudity or, you know… emotional bareness… I think that this is what we are always looking for… So, it’s wrong to think that they [sex scenes] are harder to shoot, or that it’s more intimate to take your clothes off
Source: http://interviewfrancoisarnaud.wordpress.com/2011/04/20/5/
Francois (be still, my heart!)
Date: 2013-10-20 04:13 pm (UTC)I had also read the interview you quoted above and was delighted by it. Francois really is a charmer and a love.
I think you and I agree fundamentally on our approach to sexuality. For me, it's a given that there is a strong prior connection with a man before I would even dream of going further. Casual sex is not in my dictionary. So when I write sex scenes, they all involve couples who have a real love for (or at least genuine liking for) each other. With that in mind, I do tend to "underplay the foreplay", so to speak. My fanfic writing career is very young and immature, and I need to become more comfortable in putting myself out there. Writing sexual scenes is, for me, an exercise in shedding inhibitions, which practice I really need.
I wrote "Rome Is Cruel", which you were kind enough to like, as a portrayal of Cesare coming to see and respect the humanity and value of even a humble impoverished girl. BTW, it went pretty much nowhere on the AO3 site, but I still love it.
If this note reveals my email address, great. If not, let me know and I will send it to you. Not sure if this site notifies users if they have new messages, so if I don't respond promptly, forgive me. I'm still learning.
P.S. Posted chapter 4 of Morte today.
Re: Francois (be still, my heart!)
Date: 2013-10-20 06:19 pm (UTC)I've written more extensively on my sexual orientation under the "identity" tag so I won't rehash it here, but I basically identify on the asexual spectrum so sex in real world terms isn't an option for me unless I suddenly discover I'm demisexual :) Demisexual being much as you describe but not "I desire you but I won't have sex" but rather "I have no sexual attraction to you so I don't desire sex" until there's something more substantial there.
I loved "Rome Is Cruel" and didn't see any reason to pull it down from the archive :) I know someone suggested Cesare was plotting to use the girl, which would have been interesting, but I liked it as just a moment of humanity and kindness from him :D
I didn't get your email address but I always get notified of comments to my entries and replies to my comments, so don't worry about it! :D I try to reply to comments promptly but it varies - and timezones are a nightmare!
Left a review! So long as Juan isn't Lancelot, which you assure me he is not, I'm still very much involved with the story :D
Re: Francois (be still, my heart!)
Date: 2013-10-20 08:55 pm (UTC)An individual's sexual orientation and behavior is, to me, as fundamental a part of them as their DNA, and to be respected and celebrated. Your desire to be asexual is part of you, and I don't find it suspect, troubling, weird or anything other than that it is what you wish to be. I like your candor and hope I may be equally honest when I tell you that my behavior, although not my inclination, is much like yours. Circumstances have arranged that I have lived an asexual life for a very, very long time. This is not my desire, but it is my reality. I don't like it. I had pretty much accepted and become numb to it (what was it that Eowyn said to Aragorn about fearing that use and old age would accustom her to living in a cage?)until that damn Francois/Cesare came along to upset my boring but familiar apple cart by igniting feelings that I had thought long ago had died. He really got in under my defenses. I am not at all sure what to do with those feelin
I took down all my work from AO3 because I had just had some original poems rejected by two magazines and felt that my hit and kudo count had stalled on AO3. So I decided to commit literary suicide, if I may call it that (I am a drama queen). I was heartbroken and feeling totally inadequate as an author until you resurrected me with your note. I wonder if you realized how much it meant to me. It really resurrected me.
So concerned was I about your perception that Juan may be Launcelot in "Morte" that I just posted the next chapter, just for you, which defines Juan's role in the Arthurian metaphor. He ain't Launcelot.
I am going to take down "Fragility" from this web site until I can better figure out how to post it without gunking up the inboxes of people kind enough to read it. It is a pretty "magnum" opus. I just wanted you to recall it, and now that I know you do, I consider its purpose served.
Dragons!
Date: 2013-10-21 02:53 pm (UTC)I get the impression that you have been treated very unkindly by certain others because of your asexuality. How dare they? How dare anyone question your choices? How are you harming anyone? Why would anyone react so cruelly to another human being?
The worst thing that every happened to me in cyberspace was being called an asshole by an hysterical (affection for your UK sensibilities. As an American, I would have typed "a hysterical") Michael Bolton fan when I expressed surprise at his attempt to sing "Nessun Dorma".(Yes, the Pavarotti signature aria!) To so harshly challenge anyone over what is a very intimate and personal choice is unthinkable.
Diversity is so precious and exciting.
I hope to soon post some of my poems to my journal, for your eyes only. These are works of my deepest soul and I would only entrust them to your tender care.
Re: Dragons!
Date: 2013-10-21 03:11 pm (UTC)In fact it's Asexual Awareness week so I'm going to blogging on the topic for 3-4 posts this week depending on how much material I write for it!
Actually I'd say "a hysterical" because we pronounce the 'h' as we do in "herbs" and "hotel" - but not "hour" :) At least your experience wasn't too bad :D Diversity is indeed precious :D
I'll look forward to seeing your posts - you can post just to your "circle" ie people subscribing to you, which is only me right now :) If you get more followers later you can learn about filters which display only to certain of your followers/subscribers :)
Re: Dragons!
Date: 2013-10-21 04:39 pm (UTC)I have logged a request with Dreamwidth for someone to contact me regarding walking me through the posting process. I had help with posting works in AO3, and it was most empowering. I do better by being shown how to do something. I appreciate the lesson in American vs UK pronunciation. I'm afraid most of my education comes from watching UK television, which is no doubt fraught with misinformation. Oddly, I pronounce "herbs" without the leading H. I am from the city of Pittsburgh, which is notorious for its distinctive accent. A true Pittsburgher uses the term "Yinz", which is the plural form of "you", as in "Where yinz going?" It is variously spelled "youns", but "yinz" is the phonetically accurate spelling. In fact, Pittsburghers are also known as "Yinzers." I myself don't use "yinz", but my speech is an amalgam of various accents which I have picked up. Another distinct Pittsburghese is the pronunciation of the "ou" sound. It's very harsh. For instance, the word "shower" would be pronounced like "shire." (one syllable, not "shi er".) "Flower" would sound like "flire." Dead giveaway of a Pittsburgh origin. Again, I don't typically use this pronounciation, but I plead guilty to being from the area of Pittsburgh known as "Sah Side." (South Side) Like other eccentric people, we are fiercely proud of our city, our accent, our values and our sports teams. Pittsburghers are the kind of people who, if it were 5:30 AM on a freezing morning in January and your car won't start, someone would come out and jump your battery. Many immigrants settled in Pittsburgh during the late 19th century to work in the steel mills and other manufacturing plants which cropped up here. Outside the factories, there were many ethnic churches (Eastern European, predominantly) and as many bars and taverns as churches. Real dichotomy! My father spoke Ukranian at home and learned English on the street from his friends. Sadly, he forgot his bilinguality and I never learned it. Looking forward to your blogs on Asexual Awareness, and salute you during this week.
"Corrective Rape"? What a hideous concept! The world, full of trolls, can be a scary place, no? There is an American singer named Paula Cole, who in addition to being a talented chanteuse and songwriter and beautiful woman, chose not to shave her underarms. She got an ungodly amount of hate mail about this, with "corrective rape" being among the sentiments expressed. Just because she doesn't shave her armpits? In all honestly, she really did seem to make an unnecessary show of her underarms by wearing sleeveless clothes and taking great care to lift her arms and expose her pits more than one would have thought necessary during performances, but still... It's just armpit hair! What is it about someone being different that makes some people so affronted and enraged?
I am so grateful for your continuing correspondence with me. <3
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2013 15:11:03 +0000 From: dw_null@dreamwidth.org To: marymehl@hotmail.com Subject: Re: Dragons! [ meridian_rose - 383771 ]
meridian_rose replied to a comment you left in a Dreamwidth entry "Fiction vs Social Attitudes to Relationships And Sex". The comment they replied to was: I was hard at work on a note to you regarding your post that you were working on more Dragons stories when I apparently hit a wrong key and my note vanished. Lord help me, I am just not meant for 21st century technology. Maybe the Luddites were right. I get the impression that you have been treated very unkindly by certain others because of your asexuality. How dare they? How dare anyone question your choices? How are you harming anyone? Why would anyone react so cruelly to another human being? The worst thing that every happened to me in cyberspace was being called an asshole by an hysterical (affection for your UK sensibilities. As an American, I would have typed "a hysterical") Michael Bolton fan when I expressed surprise at his attempt to sing "Nessun Dorma".(Yes, the Pavarotti signature aria!) To so harshly challenge anyone over what is a very intimate and personal choice is unthinkable. Diversity is so precious and exciting.
I hope to soon post some of my poems to my journal, for your eyes only. These are works of my deepest soul and I would only entrust them to your tender care.
The reply was:
Subject: Re: Dragons! Thankfully I haven't had too many personal attacks but general social attitudes impact on me, and bloggers who speak out more publicly have received "corective rape" threats - what a world we live in that there's a need for a phrase like that :( In fact it's Asexual Awareness week so I'm going to blogging on the topic for 3-4 posts this week depending on how much material I write for it!
Actually I'd say "a hysterical" because we pronounce the 'h' as we do in "herbs" and "hotel" - but not "hour" :) At least your experience wasn't too bad :D Diversity is indeed precious :D
I'll look forward to seeing your posts - you can post just to your "circle" ie people subscribing to you, which is only me right now :) If you get more followers later you can learn about filters which display only to certain of your followers/subscribers :) From here you can:
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Re: Dragons!
Date: 2013-10-21 07:31 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-10-13 09:30 pm (UTC)Like you, I'm more interested in the emotional content of relationships than the physical. There are so many fascinating ways to show interaction between characters.
Also, I have to ask: is the acronym 'Caras' a coincidence? ;)
no subject
Date: 2013-10-14 10:09 am (UTC)I discarded several possible acronyms -
CHASER CHaracter Attitudes to SEx and Relationships
FERS Fictional Exploration of Relationships and Sex
SERIF SEx and RelatIonships In Fiction
before deciding on CARAS because it included all the words/concepts I wanted and didn't have any negative connotations in a brief google for it. That it includes 'cara' meaning dear was definitely a bonus though :D
no subject
Date: 2013-10-14 10:44 am (UTC)But that doesn't help with newspaper articles where a general discussion about women's rights/social behaviour garners an unexpected comment about how women need to provide sex because Bible/Evo Psych/Other BS. Or a TV episode which insists "men and women can't be friends" and portrays this as true. I can't avoid the "sex is everything" trope completely but at least I can try and work through my rage :)
It's weird because there are some Black Lace books I adore (erotica written by women for women), although I haven't purchased any new ones for years, and I think its because of the emphasis on different kinds of pleasure/kinks and not just on penetration. But, esp in fic, I can enjoy erotica up to a point and then still skim over the penetration as you do! I get my satisfaction from other parts of the scene/fic.
Well I definitely have characters who think sex is mostly for fun and it doesn't rely on how long they've known someone :) Hopefully that counteracts some of my own biases.
Thank you :D
no subject
Date: 2013-10-15 10:23 am (UTC)I'd love to read that meta if you ever write it!
Yes, sex should make sense for the characters is a good way of putting it! If you know who the characters are, this should be a natural part of writing them, whether they're straight or bi, poly or monogamous. I'm loling a bit at the idea of a vampire being kinky up to a point and then being strait laced when they get to it. (I can hear Lestat sighing "Louis, always so vanilla, Louis!" if they were capable of sexual acts). I always figure supernaturals, with their long lives and lack of concern about diseases, have pretty much seen and done it all, and wouldn't really have the same hang-ups mortals do about a whole range of issues.
Thank you very much :D
no subject
Date: 2013-10-15 05:40 am (UTC)I also agree with
Looking forward to this series. :)
no subject
Date: 2013-10-15 10:27 am (UTC)Yes, on the PWP; that's what makes it readable for me, that there's still a sense of the characters and not any two or more generic bodies engaging in sex!
Thank you :D