There's Always That One Reviewer / a rant
Oct. 19th, 2015 02:55 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
meridian_roseReviews/comments are love - usually. Discussions are fun – I've been having a talk in the comments with the author of a lovely fic at AO3. And up until now AO3 has been a much nicer place than, say, ff.net, and the small fandom in question has been overall a nice place to hang out in.
Until now.
Ugh, I don't know if the reviewer is male but they're using a male name-plus-surname and their entire attitude smacks of mansplaining so IDK. I've had it from women too lately with the "Let Me Explain Why You Deserve to Fail" and I'm so over it.
I posted a fic to AO3 almost a year ago, a gift fic that was what the recipient wanted and was much liked by readers who commented. Nothing explicit, just some seducing and kissing. So far so good.
This weekend, enter Argumentative Reviewer, hereafter referred to as AR.
This fic is ooc, they insisted, and the romance is unbelievable, this character is "removed from carnal desires".
Oh really?
It's fanfic. Interpretations may vary. Events will not slavishly follow canon. The pairing is right there in the relationship and other tags. If you don't believe the pairing is possible don't read it and then criticise the relationship.
So I explain my take on the character(s), which are widely shared by the majority of the fandom – this slash ship is the most popular pairing by a mile.
AR leaves a review on another fic, same pairing but a very different genre, this one explicit and yet apparently believable because character is less ooc.
I point out this fic is far less believable in canon terms and includes sex.
Answer from AR? Mocking my "don't read it" answer, general mansplaining about canon and their interpretation – which again makes me think "male" because you know the trope; fanboys are obsessed with canon, fangirls are obsessed with fannish interpretation.
In response to AR's less snarky but still "I'm right" answer to the second review, I mention that in the second season we see said character canonically engage in sexual relations. He's not "removed from carnal desires". Oh, but that's canon and the character is different then, you have to stick to canonical timelines when interpreting the characters and so on…the only thing not mentioned was #whatabouthemenz but all the other hallmarks of male entitlement were there.
There's a difference between a discussion – we had plenty of lively ones at the People's Palace back in the day – and a "noo, let me tell you how I am right and you are wrong and therefore your fic is wrong". Between a "I think it's a little occ but still enjoyable" and "I shall write an essay about how I know for a fact you are writing this character wrong".
And the asshole magnanimously offers to discuss things with me further.
How about no.
If you want total canon compliance then stick to canon. Don't badger fanfiction writers who are writing things they want to write, and that they want to read, and are often writing specifically for certain audiences or individuals, as in the case of a gift fic.
Until now.
Ugh, I don't know if the reviewer is male but they're using a male name-plus-surname and their entire attitude smacks of mansplaining so IDK. I've had it from women too lately with the "Let Me Explain Why You Deserve to Fail" and I'm so over it.
I posted a fic to AO3 almost a year ago, a gift fic that was what the recipient wanted and was much liked by readers who commented. Nothing explicit, just some seducing and kissing. So far so good.
This weekend, enter Argumentative Reviewer, hereafter referred to as AR.
This fic is ooc, they insisted, and the romance is unbelievable, this character is "removed from carnal desires".
Oh really?
It's fanfic. Interpretations may vary. Events will not slavishly follow canon. The pairing is right there in the relationship and other tags. If you don't believe the pairing is possible don't read it and then criticise the relationship.
So I explain my take on the character(s), which are widely shared by the majority of the fandom – this slash ship is the most popular pairing by a mile.
AR leaves a review on another fic, same pairing but a very different genre, this one explicit and yet apparently believable because character is less ooc.
I point out this fic is far less believable in canon terms and includes sex.
Answer from AR? Mocking my "don't read it" answer, general mansplaining about canon and their interpretation – which again makes me think "male" because you know the trope; fanboys are obsessed with canon, fangirls are obsessed with fannish interpretation.
In response to AR's less snarky but still "I'm right" answer to the second review, I mention that in the second season we see said character canonically engage in sexual relations. He's not "removed from carnal desires". Oh, but that's canon and the character is different then, you have to stick to canonical timelines when interpreting the characters and so on…the only thing not mentioned was #whatabouthemenz but all the other hallmarks of male entitlement were there.
There's a difference between a discussion – we had plenty of lively ones at the People's Palace back in the day – and a "noo, let me tell you how I am right and you are wrong and therefore your fic is wrong". Between a "I think it's a little occ but still enjoyable" and "I shall write an essay about how I know for a fact you are writing this character wrong".
And the asshole magnanimously offers to discuss things with me further.
How about no.
If you want total canon compliance then stick to canon. Don't badger fanfiction writers who are writing things they want to write, and that they want to read, and are often writing specifically for certain audiences or individuals, as in the case of a gift fic.
no subject
Date: 2015-10-19 09:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-10-20 12:14 pm (UTC)But when I said if he/she didn't have to read a pairing if they didn't find it believable their response was sneering. To their mind they should be able to read any fic and have it suit their personal interpretations of characters and canon.
Honestly, it's fanfic. If you get so upset by any perceived deviation from canon, stick to canon!
Also I posted this rant to Tumblr and had someone privately contact me on Twitter to say they'd seen other authors in the same fandom getting these "trolling" reviews, and so rapidly it was doubtful the reviewer had even read all the fics they were reviewing. So I feel a little better knowing I was not singled out. But I'm irritated because small fandoms can be the best places and yet one asshat like this can sour it for everyone.
no subject
Date: 2015-10-20 06:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-10-20 07:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-10-22 12:20 am (UTC)I'm so sorry that you got hit with this. Our fandom is so teeny-tiny and there's not nearly enough fic, so I don't know how someone gets off criticizing you for writing ooc, especially with Riario. Even in canon, he does the unexpected and contradicts himself.
AR leaves a review on another fic, same pairing but a very different genre, this one explicit and yet apparently believable because character is less ooc.
I don't even understand this. It sounds like AR is just judging you based on what they prefer. Your characters and interpretations aren't ooc, AR just likes them one way or another.
I'm really happy this person isn't reading my stuff because I'm ooc all over the place. That's the fun of fanfic--we can interpret it as we like. And the back button is right up there if AR doesn't like it. ;D
P.S. I stalked you over here after I got your Tumblr note because this is easier, and don't worry, I only got the one note! No duplicates! lol
no subject
Date: 2015-10-22 09:47 am (UTC)Yes, I agree. It's "you are not writing to *my* interpretation of canon like X author" - go read more of their fic then and stay away from me! - rather than something that might be useful concrit such as "your characterisation is inconsistent within this fic".
I'm going to have to try and let it go and just hope they don't continue to comment next time I post something DvD related! The fandom is teeny-tiny which sucks, so we need all the fanworks and fanfic in particular we can get!
no subject
Date: 2015-10-25 09:34 pm (UTC)Luckily, those idiots (and I don't mean men, just argumentative commenters) are in the minority, especially on ao3.
no subject
Date: 2015-10-26 09:01 am (UTC)It's the first time I've ever had a bad experience at AO3; I had a couple of snide comments at ff.net but because I mostly write in small fandoms I'm less visible and so maybe less likely to get argumentative reviews.
You're right of course. On the whole there are lot more positive comments, genuine concrit, and a lot of general "nice fic" reviews from reviewers than arguments or insults :)
no subject
Date: 2015-10-26 09:15 am (UTC)AO3 used to be a more civilised place (than, say, ff.net) but someone on my LJ list had someone give them really vile comments (3 non-registered users, probably all the same person who'd likely followed them from another site), and it seems I'm not the only one getting the fandom police showing up.
People are definitely weird. If you're that mad about canon/your interpretation of canon, don't read fanfic. Yet I remember we could have discussions at People's Palace that never got nasty. And I have never before had someone say "you're doing this character wrong, x author does it better ie how I interpret canon" before. And I'm hardly going to rewrite any fic, let alone a gift fic to suit someone else's sensibilities so I don't know what AR was trying to achieve.
I called mansplaining after the "character doesn't have sexual urges"; "yes he does, see s2"; "no, but this is s1" exchange. I ought to get points for predicting canon, not a dressing down :P
no subject
Date: 2015-11-02 12:27 pm (UTC)Also I'm sorry that happened to you. Perceived "weakness" for crimes like having a disability or being other than cis-male for example is blood in the water to some people. After that they will not take you seriously and there's nothing you can do.
I agree that discussion is different to fic. But you get people wanting to discuss sometimes at AO3 - or indeed mansplain. And I think it would be more acceptable at a journal than a fic site, where you could set up a separate discussion post if you wanted that level of engagement. Because fic isn't a discussion but it can certainly provoke one and I miss that aspect of LJ.
Oh, yes; Tumblr, to me, doesn't encourage people to respond to each other at all, though some brave souls do try to communicate. The discussions are spread out as people branch out, replying to comment A or comment B or comment X and then there are replies to those and you can't have a coherent debate. You can't even sort through 5k of "liked" comments to find the original comment B which spawned ranting comment three levels deeper several weeks later. And then someone's deleted a comment or changed their url again leaving a hole in the debate and other comments without context. It's a big damn mess.
Oh, and of course communicating often means reblogging the entire post to add another comment, thereby clogging up all your follower's dashboards. Journals, people, not this micro-blogging crap, journals do not have these failings.
I think the "not a person" perception is a problem with online communication in general. Tumblr just seems to make it *worse*. You don't know people as intimiately; you don't think "wait, that's Jennie with the two cats who is struggling with taking care of her elderly father and who identifies as genderqueer; I'm sure she didn't intend that comment to erase bisexuality. I'll mention it politely to her, she probably posted while stressed." You just see some asshat seemingly ignoring that bisexuality exists and maybe respond in kind :(