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meridian_roseThere's a post Things I will not do to my characters. Ever. by Seanan McGuire, in response to a male fan asking when one of her female characters was going to be raped. WHEN.
When she replied "Never", she was told that this was unrealistic, despite her novels being fantasy based tales in which one of said female characters looks human but is a parasitic wasp. The fan heaped on some victim blaming by suggesting ways in which a rape could "realistically happen" like a female wandering around in her provocative dance outfit after dark.
The comments are full of win. Like many there, I've not read McGuire's work but now I want to, and I know I'll never have to worry about the 'rape as character development' trope when I do.
As one of the commentators,dornbeast said in the metaquote that led me to the post, "For some reason, female characters seem to have rape, pregnancy, and miscarriage in their top five choices for character growth. In my opinion, that's bovine-sourced organic fertilizer."
I'd add very traditional heterosexual marriage as one of the remaining two. Because so many - usually male - writers cannot think of anything to do with women other than make them wives, mothers, and/or victims. We recently had the new Lara Croft game uproar where a new backstory was suggested. Instead of "survives a plane crash and makes her way through the jungle alone", the new backstory was "nearly gets raped on an island". Because that's the only way gamers could "empathise" with Lara, by wanting to "protect" her. The fail happens on so many levels it's ridiculous.*
Expecting female characters to be victimized, suggesting ways they can "bring it on themselves", and seeing this as the only way for a woman to become empowered(!) are symptoms of the rape culture that so many deny exist. It does exist, and one of the ways we need to tackle it is through creating and consuming media that doesn't victimise us. So kudos for McGuire and her tough and uncompromising stance on this. She doesn't want to write rape, she's not going to write rape, and the majority of current and future readers applaud her for it.
*A clarification was later issued saying there's no sexual assault and it's all a build up to giving Lara her first human kill. If the threat of rape is there, if people watching the trailer/playing the game see the threat there, it's still victimizing Lara by indirect sexual assault.
Not "if." Not "do you think." But "when," and "finally." Because it is a foregone conclusion, you see, that all women must be raped, especially when they have the gall to run around being protagonists all the damn time.
When she replied "Never", she was told that this was unrealistic, despite her novels being fantasy based tales in which one of said female characters looks human but is a parasitic wasp. The fan heaped on some victim blaming by suggesting ways in which a rape could "realistically happen" like a female wandering around in her provocative dance outfit after dark.
The comments are full of win. Like many there, I've not read McGuire's work but now I want to, and I know I'll never have to worry about the 'rape as character development' trope when I do.
As one of the commentators,
dornbeast said in the metaquote that led me to the post, "For some reason, female characters seem to have rape, pregnancy, and miscarriage in their top five choices for character growth. In my opinion, that's bovine-sourced organic fertilizer."I'd add very traditional heterosexual marriage as one of the remaining two. Because so many - usually male - writers cannot think of anything to do with women other than make them wives, mothers, and/or victims. We recently had the new Lara Croft game uproar where a new backstory was suggested. Instead of "survives a plane crash and makes her way through the jungle alone", the new backstory was "nearly gets raped on an island". Because that's the only way gamers could "empathise" with Lara, by wanting to "protect" her. The fail happens on so many levels it's ridiculous.*
Expecting female characters to be victimized, suggesting ways they can "bring it on themselves", and seeing this as the only way for a woman to become empowered(!) are symptoms of the rape culture that so many deny exist. It does exist, and one of the ways we need to tackle it is through creating and consuming media that doesn't victimise us. So kudos for McGuire and her tough and uncompromising stance on this. She doesn't want to write rape, she's not going to write rape, and the majority of current and future readers applaud her for it.
*A clarification was later issued saying there's no sexual assault and it's all a build up to giving Lara her first human kill. If the threat of rape is there, if people watching the trailer/playing the game see the threat there, it's still victimizing Lara by indirect sexual assault.
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Date: 2012-10-02 09:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-10-03 06:22 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-10-03 07:49 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-10-01 11:40 am (UTC)Thanks for the head's up. I thought the Toby obsession with her daughter that kept floating around in the comments meant I wouldn't enjoy that, but I did like the idea of the mice in the Discount Armageddon one :) If I saw it cheap enough second hand I might skim it.
Also, hope you feel better soon!
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Date: 2012-10-02 12:34 pm (UTC)I think it's a great topic because as I mentioned in a post (wherein I was referenced) I'm a fan of the show but haven't read the books and have been put off by all the reader's comments about the constant rape storylines. So anything around rape culture in the show, and/or how it compares to the books would be awesome.
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Date: 2012-10-02 12:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-10-01 07:17 pm (UTC)This is like back when I first started writing LotS fic, ppl kept asking me if I was going to write Darken raping Kahlan and I was like........no, never. In fact, I prefer it when a novel portrays a woman consenting to sex and positively embracing her sexuality. That's just as powerful, if not more so. I can't. I JUST.
UGH.
I don't get the fascination. But a lot of people don't. Fandom secrets is full of this particular topic. And it's infuriating how often it's a thing. I actually have an original novel, where when the villainess is confronted, she assures the hero she's never been raped, and then mocks him because that would make things so much easier for him, if he could just point to this one thing that changed her. /somehow I've wound up rambling about myself.
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Date: 2012-10-01 07:26 pm (UTC)I've never seen show!Darken as a rapist. He has Mord'Sith all over the place to satisfy his every need, and it would seem to be a very uncivil thing to do and thus be out of character. Darken, to me, would pride himself on making women want him, and wouldn't gain satisfaction from forcing himself on a woman. (Though I did just write dubcon but that was with Richard, whole other situation!) Panis on the other hand...ugh, Panis. I can't think of a strong enough word.
I love the idea of you turning the trope on its head! Tropes are there to be used as necessary, lampshaded, and utterly subverted :D
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Date: 2012-10-01 07:33 pm (UTC)^All of my feelings. You have said them.
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Date: 2012-10-02 03:17 am (UTC)Also - why would anyone ever leap toward this question? Is the character ever going to get married and have lots of babies I understand, because some people want that and it's a valid choice. But no one wants to get raped - wouldn't that go against the whole definition of the word?
It makes me disapprove of the questioner, anyway.
I've never read McGuire's work, but now I want to :)
I don't know anything about Lara Croft, but I would think surviving a plane crash and making her way through a jungle is pretty impressive.
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Date: 2012-10-02 06:36 am (UTC)And if someone said to me "Isn't your character going to actually be a grown up and have lots of babies" I'd say (amongst other things!) "NO" and not expect them to come back with "but it's unrealistic and she should just be raped and get pregnant because then she'd want to keep the baby!" and other bullshit.
I got the impression that fan just really really wanted to read a rape scene. But you can get your fix of whatever your kink is elsewhere, without demanding an author write whatever you want them to.
One of the characters in MacGuire's books already has a kid, so that's not directly relevant, but I'm with the commentator that I'm sick to death of women having nothing but "women's issues" storylines. There is plenty of media out there that treats women as disposable and without agency.
But every time we get a female character who is a real protagonist people want to tear her down and put her "in her place" by any means necessary.
It's one of the reasons I don't write a lot of hurt/comfort where the hurt is related to a female character except for emotional hurt. Women get victimized enough and I don't want to write about women being physically or sexually traumatized.
I think about this a lot, because there's definitely sexism in many parts of Kat's world. And rape exists. But I don't want it to be prevalent or 'normal'. And I don't want it to happen to Kat. And I get to decide that and I can't believe any reader would demand otherwise.
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Date: 2012-10-03 08:34 pm (UTC)And I get to decide that and I can't believe any reader would demand otherwise. Absolutely. After all, if they don't like it, they don't have to read it, right?
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Date: 2012-10-03 09:46 pm (UTC)Sure they don't' have to read it, but I'm hardly going to warn for "This book has a female protagonist who doesn't get raped" :) (Seriously, anyone who needs rape in a fic to enjoy it has issues) And for another, I'll consider a disclaimer like that when every published book warns when it does contain a sexual assault - which would be a huge step forward for rape survivors who've been triggered by a surprise!rape scene in an otherwise innocuous novel :(
I'm honestly still raging over that man's audacity and overall creepiness. I'm working it out by writing things dealing with consent and how important it is.
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Date: 2012-10-03 06:12 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-10-03 06:25 am (UTC)