Legend of the Seeker: Discussion; what about the D'Harans?

[meridian_rose]

There's two major driving points behind this; the first is hrhrionastar's fic Rescue.

I fell in love with it when it was up for voting and was impatient to see who wrote it; all of the entries were fantastic, but what stood out for me in this fic was the character of Ashgar. I had forgotten he was a canon character. In fact the only D'Haran guard/Dragon Corps beyond the Generals Nass and Egremont that I could recall was Captain Ensor who was a well-rounded character.

The other was a challenge at legendland where the world should be mirrored in some way. Before the rules were relaxed, people were expressing concerns about male Mord'Sith and female Corps – that it made no sense for women to be armed guards since they are weaker. Yet the D'Haran guards are, for the most part, weak and incompetent. One Mord'Sith is worth two Quads of male guards.

Some of this is the fault of the writers, using the guards and the Sisters of the Dark as redshirts, cannon fodder for the heroes to overcome. But until these two things made me think about it, I was just as guilty of failing to make the guards actual characters, as seeing them as people when I wrote them at all. This contrasts with the 'Robin Hood' fandom, where the BBC production used always incompetent castle guards as the fall guys to the Sheriff's disappointment. However several writers, myself included, have indulged in short fic that's sometimes crack and plays on the dim-wittedness of the guards, but also drama and angst that creates real characters who just happen to be guards.

So, are the Corps just redshirts? Do you try to sympathise with them? Should we try and include more about them sometimes? Are they incompetent or is the Seeker just that good? How do they feel about being inferior in skill and in Rahl's favour when compared to the Mord'Sith?

Comments

[hrhrionastar.livejournal.com]

I'm certainly guilty of making the guards red shirts in my fics, but I like to think that even in stories not focused on them, they still have whole lives and motivations and opinions of their own - or what's the point?

The problem with Richard and particularly Kahlan's attitude toward not only the D'Harans and the Sisters of the Dark but also the people of the Midlands they're supposedly protecting is that they never ask what those people want or think. Kahlan is the Mother Confessor, which means (as far as I understand it) that she is the rightful ruler of the Midlands, both in terms of actual power and also moral superiority. How can she be defending the People, without listening to the individuals?

Or, to use a quote from Lois McMaster Bujold, "How can she be answerable to all, and yet not to each?"

And it's the same with Darken and the D'Haran soldiers. How much does he ever think about each individual one? He's so paranoid I'd think he must give their motivations and opinions some thought. In the very beginning of the show, Kahlan says Darken has thousands of soldiers and wizards, etc, loyal to him, which suggests to me that he can't command their respect only with dark magic. They would have revolted before the Seeker ever appeared.

So I think the D'Haran soldiers are villified as part of pro-Midlands propaganda, at least somewhat.

The Sisters of the Dark are different, though, since they're working to destroy all life and must therefore be more than usually evil or insane...or so it seems to me.

Are they incompetent or is the Seeker just that good? A little of both - and yet, I think we are supposed to think the Seeker is just that good. After all, he fights with the strength and skill of all the previous Seekers - and many, many times he escapes certain death at the hands of the D'Harans only because of some timely Wizard's Fire from Zedd.

I do wonder about the relationship between the soldiers and the Mord'Sith. It would be easy to resent the Mord'Sith's possession of Lord Rahl's favor and their success rate - or would the average D'Haran soldier be grateful not to attract Lord Rahl's personal attention?

Ooh, long comment is long...

[dorothydeath.livejournal.com]

In the very beginning of the show, Kahlan says Darken has thousands of soldiers and wizards, etc, loyal to him, which suggests to me that he can't command their respect only with dark magic. They would have revolted before the Seeker ever appeared.
Oh, that is such a great point! :D

In the episode with Renn (don't remember which was that) when D'Haran captain failed to get the Listener he said "I'll face Lord Rahl's wrath" which implies loyalty, respect, responsibility, courage, and honor.
Also "the only thing Lord Rahl hates more than bad news is bad news being kept from him".
It kinda made me think that Darken doesn't terrorize his subjects into mindless submission. Because no way a mindless slave would have said such a thing.

[hrhrionastar.livejournal.com]

In the episode with Renn (don't remember which was that) when D'Haran captain failed to get the Listener he said "I'll face Lord Rahl's wrath" which implies loyalty, respect, responsibility, courage, and honor.
Also "the only thing Lord Rahl hates more than bad news is bad news being kept from him". Yes - that's actually Captain Ashgar, who I used for my drabble. I really liked how brave he was about facing Lord Rahl's wrath, and thereby protecting his men, and also it suggested he'd met Lord Rahl before, obviously not on an equal footing, but enough to know Darken would hate having bad news kept from him...

It kinda made me think that Darken doesn't terrorize his subjects into mindless submission. Because no way a mindless slave would have said such a thing. Agreed. I reread Pris's Blood Trilogy recently, and she had a great moment where (Mord'Sith) Haden was thinking how she owed her loyalty to the House of Rahl but in the privacy of her own head she could think of them as she liked, as contrasted with Confession.

[dorothydeath.livejournal.com]

that's actually Captain Ashgar, who I used for my drabble.
Oh, I didn't recognize him... O_O
Now I love your drabble even MORE!! :D

Haden was thinking how she owed her loyalty to the House of Rahl but in the privacy of her own head she could think of them as she liked, as contrasted with Confession.
Yes, I remember that part. It was awesome!
Seriously, Confession is a pretty scary and nasty thing. Maybe D'Hara was doing Midlands a favor by getting them rid of Confessors? Weren't Confessors tyrants just like Darken or Queen Milena?

[ivanolix.livejournal.com]

I have a very hard time writing Seeker fic because I HATE the institution of Confessors. I find it a vile concept and worse than anything the so called villains do. I know Kahlan takes her powers seriously but a hereditary position will always breed tyrants. Personally I think the world would be better off without them. Some kinds of magic shouldn't exist (and don't get me going on the whole taking a mate aspect...)

I love Kahlan...but not what she stands for

[meridian_rose]

a hereditary position will always breed tyrants I hadn't really thought about that, but I suppose it's true that when a person has such power because of their genetics rather any true skills, morals, or other suitability for the position, it's bound to happen at some point.

[hrhrionastar.livejournal.com]

I think that Kahlan herself does take her responsibilities seriously, but in general I agree - the institution of Confessors is full of really ugly things, even without considering taking a mate and the whole male Confessor thing.

On the other hand, in a world with magic some of that entitlement stuff seems inevitable. If Richard tried to organize a democracy, for example, I don't think it would work...somehow having people with extra powers seems to force a somewhat tyrannical system.

[ivanolix.livejournal.com]

Heh I'm sort of an anti-magic person for that very reason...why do I like fantasy? ;)

[meridian_rose]

The Sisters clearly have had more choice in their decision and are absolutely working with the Keeper; I threw them in as another redshirt example - supposedly they're powerful and innumerable but get killed off frequently :D

Darken probably concerns himself with the officers more than the soldiers, the higher the rank, the more he's found them trustworthy. But yes, their loyalty suggests the rewards outweigh any risk to them. They're not slaves, like the Confessed. You're right about their loyalty.

I sort of want to write about Mord'Sith and officers now; although I'm not familiar with bookverse, I know Cara does find a mate amongst the Corp.

[hrhrionastar.livejournal.com]

The Sisters of the Dark kill one another just as much if not more than Our Heroes kill them, though. Actually I wonder about their motivations, too - for Nicci it's about revenge on a world, and a Creator, that abandoned her when she needed help...for some of them it's surely about whatever illusion of power they think they can get from the Keeper.

the higher the rank, the more he's found them trustworthy. That makes sense :)

although I'm not familiar with bookverse, I know Cara does find a mate amongst the Corp. Yes - Benjamin Meiffert. Although I really don't know more than his name. I glanced at the wedding scene once, though, and it involved either Nicci or some of the Mord'Sith, I forget which now, wearing a pink bow - which struck me as ridiculous and maybe offensive. (Bleh, Terry Goodkind...)

I sort of want to write about Mord'Sith and officers now Yay! It's a fascinating topic :D

[meridian_rose]

Now hosting over at the Palace too, if you want to copy-pasta your thoughts there.