I'm not a girl

[meridian_rose]

I'm not a girl..

There are aspects of me that code absolutely feminine as far as the Western modern female paradigm is concerned. Show me a puppy, for example :D
There are plenty of aspects that don't match it.
I was burrowing through a box of paperbacks yesterday in a charity store, focussing on the action, gen fic and sci-fi; I'd sometimes say 'I think I read that one' to my sister's amusement that I can announce this when randomly going through a collection of books. I picked up a couple of female-orientated books, read the blurb and tossed them back into the box. Nothing about them appealed.
"I'm not a girl," I said.

Well, I'm supposedly a grown woman, so not a 'girl', and I'm not about to get into definitions of adulthood. Not at this moment, anyway.
But the fact is, I've never loved too much saccharine. I've grown up in a fannish family with parents who love genre tv and don't 'do' soaps or reality. I can and will watch occasional romcoms and romances but they must have a specific hook for me – more com than rom, a particular actor, it's based on a book, or some other quality that makes it stand out.
But I've decided it's not the romance in itself that's the problem. I read romance in fandom a lot more than I ever do in published fiction and in published fiction and fandom alike I like erotica more than I like 'romance' . I think that's because erotica, for me, doesn't have the problems I see with romances:

Romance novels and movies are very constrained. Woman meets man, maybe unsuitable man. They fall in love. There's problems. Problems are solved. Marriage. Babies. Or pregnancy resulting in marriage. Blah.
Erotica allows for polyamory, for relationships without the need to marry, for non-traditional relationships within a marriage, for relationships without children – or that continue to be exciting and fulfuilling on their own terms even after children enter the equation. Erotica allows for problematic relationships and angry sex and other things that aren't acceptable in vanilla romance stories.

I read a lot of Legend of the Seeker fic, and I'm going to include three snippets here of recent fics in that fandom that code to me as romance without making them unpalatable to me – quite the opposite, in fact. Two of them are pirate AU fics written for the pirate challenge at the peoplespalace

Lie To Me by pristineungift; a darkfest fic, Darken Rahl/Kahlan

She needed this, the warm touch of another. She needed something to thaw the icy shards of her spirit before it broke, brittle thing that it was. She needed to be loved, needed to be held, needed to pretend that she wasn’t living an enormous, crushing lie.
Worse, she wanted it.
Darken leaned forward, pressing their lips into a kiss. It was hard, loveless, a passion fueled by rage, a burning desire that would consume them both, leaving only ashes behind.
Kahlan had never allowed him to be gentle with her. She needed him to be the beast that used her for pleasure, their congress a thing of sweat and sex.
Not love.
Never love.

This really appeals; I like ships with Issues, I think. Especially where the hate really is so close to love. I tackled something similar in my V fic In Times of War: She'd have him, but she'd make sure he knew that it was only anger and frustration that drove her to his bed, not love. Never love. Ultimately I wanted a more shippy resolution than 'Lie To Me' could give while staying in keeping with the overall tone, but there are similarities.
I still see this as romance, in a way; Kahlan pretends Darken is Richard while Darken pretends Kahlan loves him. It's desperately tragic, but still. Definitely not mainstream genre romance.

The Admiral’s Captive by hrhrionastar; a Pirate AU fic

Aydindril was burning.
Fog obscured the scene; cannons blasted, women screamed, children cried, the sounds of battle filled the ears as swords clanged, people ran through the streets—
All was chaos. Admiral Darken Rahl, Pirate King of the entire ocean, from southern Eldoria to D’Hara to the long Midlands coast, loved it.
He smiled, adjusted his hat to a more rakish angle, killed a passing man in the uniform of the United Midlands Navy, and stood stock still for one blissful, shocked moment.
She was a vision. Dressed all in white, long dark hair tumbling over her shoulders as she wielded her daggers with a competence no man but Admiral Rahl would expect from a woman, her beautiful face locked in a mask of deadly concentration—
Even before he saw the ornate sash that proclaimed her rank as Lady and Governor of Aydindril, Admiral Rahl vowed he would have this woman—body and soul.

This reads like Amazing Pirate Romance Novel blurb or opening prose. If I flicked through to the end of a real romance book, I'd probably find Rahl married to Kahlan with half a dozen children, having reformed his wicked way. This fic – spoilers – ends with a polyamorous arrangement with Rahl, Kahlan and Cara. Kahlan has had one child, but Cara has not. Rahl has secured the seas and Kahlan the land, together they have formed an alliance of peaceful co-operation in which Rahl 'made piracy an unofficial part of politics, where it belonged.' A compromise I could live with.

Pirate Code by ivanolix, another pirate AU fic

Instead of feeling the impact of shoulder against chest, the pirate spun as if it was a formal dance, catching her by the waist and redirecting the energy of her lunge in a circle. They spun together, and a stunned Kahlan moved as if it was a waltz.
Before she had time to raise her sword again, he dug his heels in. Her motion carried her to a sudden stop as she slammed full into his chest, his guiding hand still impertinently splayed over her waist. Kahlan sucked in a swift breath and reached for the dagger sheathed in her thigh-high boots, better than any long and unwieldy sword now.
But the world stopped spinning and her heart refused to beat out of pure indignation when she felt warm lips capture her own and realized that he was kissing her. She froze for a moment in his arms, breath caught in her throat, as Darken Rahl made love instead of war...and she had no defenses put up against that.
A confused strangled sound purred in the back of her throat as her eyes slipped shut, as the faint hint of stubble brushed against her heat-flushed cheek, as his lips teased hers in a kiss that throbbed with the adrenaline rushing in her veins. Her heart started beating again, pounding in her ribcage that was now pressed against his, sword almost forgotten as it hung loosely in her grip.
Then, hearing a slight chuckle, she felt the blades wrenched from her grasp. Kahlan jerked back from the kiss and looked up. Darken Rahl had dropped the mask of cool intelligence for just a moment, a devilish smugness replacing it for a few terrible moments as he flipped her weapons up more firmly into his own grip. "Thank you, Confessor," he said in a voice like molten gold.
Her spine went iron in indignation and humiliation, empty hands clenched. "You cheated," she said, nearly spitting at him.
He gave a half shrug, lips quirking. "Pirate."

Sexy swordplay indeed. The dialogue is reminiscent of Jack Sparrow/Elizabeth Swan in 'Pirates of the Caribbean' but while the movie insists on pairing Swan with blacksmith Will Turner, this fic hints at a relationship between Darken and Kahlan that quite excludes Richard – his woodsguide persona would parallel blacksmith quite nicely in this AU, I think. It also evokes the image of Banderas/Zeta Jones in 'Zorro' where their swordplay was absolutely meant to suggest a flirtation, and is an example of the duellists later becoming lovers – including marriage and a child as a traditional romance seems to insist upon.

So, perhaps it's not romance I dislike, just a particular subset that makes up the majority of published genre romance fiction. I certainly find I'll read across genres more in fanfic, especially for certain fandoms, characters, and/or authors I trust. I think I also need plot. And OMG, cute guy, must marry and breed with him doesn't make a plot, for me. But OMG cute guy, but Issues and Making Sure He Respects Me and My Choices, now that's different. And if there's vampires, werewolves, aliens, spies, and/or superpowers involved, so much the better.

Comments

[pristineungift.livejournal.com]

LOL, yes to all of this!

And I'm flattered that I'm one of the authors that made the "acceptable" cut.

But I completely agree, Re: your issues with romance.

I tried for years to write fanfiction, first in anime, then in Harry Potter, and I ultimately never posted because I would lose interest and not finish the stories. It wasn't until I wrote Blood from a Stone that I realized why: I can't write straight romance. I need there to be some dark twisty undertone, some sort of adventure, something hopeful and hopeless and more than boy meets girl (or in some cases, girl meets girl).

So. Yes. I agree. I was going somewhere with that, but then I wanted a cookie, and now I've forgotten. >_>

[meridian_rose]

Maybe that's why I trust you; I'll read anything you post, because I know from experience that you won't disappoint me. The prose will be compelling, regardless of where the story goes, and it will never get too saccharine :D And I can't write PWP or fluff beyond a ficlet - no drama makes it harder to connect with the characters.

Have a cookie :D And feel free to come back later with more thinky thoughts if you have them.

[meridian_rose]

I'm so glad it's not just me. Obvs, I don't mind dark ships and I don't think a passing mention of the issues in an otherwise romantic/erotic fic will ruin the 'mood'; I see it as recognising the characters and who they are. It's interesting that fanfic seems to give this more attention than mainstream published works.

I'm wondering if this is why I'm not crazy about R/K; we're not told why, just that they're in True Love. I accept it as canon, but it doesn't fascinate me because ultimately it's inevitable despite the 'oh noes confessor issue' and will end predictably in monogamy, marriage, babies. Perhaps if they'd argued more and had to work at being in a relationship it would have been more interesting.

[hrhrionastar.livejournal.com]

I absolutely agree that societal expectations don't always (or ever, really) accord with individual people.

(Although on the puppy thing, I'm not traditional - dogs scare me. And I'm allergic to cats, so I can't even substitute being a kitty person.)

I'm honored to be included in the 'acceptable romance' category :D

I agree that romance novel formulas are very constrained - in fact, I notice that in other genres as well (that is, I'm a genre-mixer - straight sci-fi can bore me as well as straight romance.)

Oh, the other thing about vanilla romance that is so annoying - sometimes the hero looks bad in some way, like a thief or an undesirable member of society somehow, but he always turns out to have the noblest of motives and be a gentleman at heart. This also goes for the guys who sleep around but can be cured by 'the love of a good woman.' Ridiculous! Although I really, really love Georgette Heyer's romances, and one of my favorites is These Old Shades, which actually does involve a reformed rake...but you'd still like it, there's action, too - at first, he takes our heroine, who is masquerading as a boy, as a page, because he sees a resemblance between her and a long-time enemy of his and plans to use her for revenge in some way...

Okay, anyway. Magic, vampires, aliens, etc are always a fascinating extra touch :D

(And, as I mentioned before, I literally can't write just plain romance - Love is Cruel started that way, or at least it was supposed to be angsty romance, but then I had to have actual plot...or The Unreadable Girl, for the Feelings Fest on lots_femslash. That was definitely supposed to be just romance...I guess I just feel like those formulas are really limiting.)

Of course, romance novels do sell, so obviously our opinions are not universal...

[meridian_rose]

I think I've seen Heyer's books rec'd elsewhere. Will have to look out for those :D

There was something we touched on in Media Theory about uses of media; women who liked romance novels cited reasons such as books that were just 'for them', safe and familiar - no surprises, no thinking needed - no issues addressed. Perhaps that's why romance novels are so popular.

I hear you on the 'looks like a pirate but is secretly an undercover naval officer' to use our pirate trope. Sleeping around - might men decide to settle down eventually, I wonder; and where does this fit into a world that treated polyamory as acceptable or even desirable.

Part of me does want to accept the 'change for love' trope to some degree. Many Darklings do cite Darken's affection for Cara or deep need for love as a catalyst when trying to portray him more sympathetically.
I'm watching 'No Ordinary Family' in which one of the villain's henchmen was sent to romance a close friend of the superpowered family and use her spy on them. However in playing the part of suitor, he developed genuine feelings for her, even refusing to sleep with her when he discovered she was a virgin. He then tried to walk away from his boss, despite this meaning he would lose his own superpowers which he gained as payment for his services. The love he's developed has become real for him, even though he knows it's based on a lie, and she's worth more to him than his power.
The catalyst for his behaviour is love; his backstory is so far vague but has hinted at a disadvantaged upbringing that left him vulnerable to the machinations of the villain, who raised him to be a weapon. And so the first hint of genuine love from another human makes him question everything.
On the other hand he hasn't told the woman his real name, still using a pseudonym, and sooner or late he's going to have to come clean about his past -like Darken, he's killed a lot of people - and explain the reasons he first began the charade.
That's a lot of issues - I'm intending to use the character for the 'superpowers' square of my angst_bingo :D

I know I'm arguing against my own assertion now, but it strikes me that in this instance I accept the trope of 'reformed for love'. Perhaps because we've seen that he was committing evil acts without a second thought, but moved gradually into having genuine feelings; not 'good all along', and that he's changing for her without her knowledge. He's not making a show -yet- of changing to please her, while some heroes might use it as leverage 'I gave up everything for you, so you must love me'.

You always make me think more about my own motives and beliefs :D

[hrhrionastar.livejournal.com]

no surprises, no thinking needed - no issues addressed. Pouts - but that's so boring!

Part of me does want to accept the 'change for love' trope to some degree. Many Darklings do cite Darken's affection for Cara or deep need for love as a catalyst when trying to portray him more sympathetically. That's true, and I didn't mean to say the changing for love thing never happens. I guess I'm thinking more that there should be a reason this particular woman can change that particular man - is he ashamed by her goodness? Is she in danger, in the kind of situation where he'll have to do something he wouldn't even consider normally in order to rescue her? I don't know that I'm expressing it well, because a lot of the tropes I don't like I still believe when they're written well enough. (Georgette Heyer, for example ;D)

In your example, the character on No Ordinary Family, I would be upset if our heroine finds out about his past, that he lied to her, and decides it doesn't matter because she's in love with him, so who cares about principles, etc? Under those circumstances, there'd be no reason for him to reform, and no challenge for the relationship.

He's not making a show -yet- of changing to please her, while some heroes might use it as leverage 'I gave up everything for you, so you must love me'. This is important. One of the villains in Barbara Hambly's The Dead Travel Fast is described as always giving money to beggars and holding doors open for women, etc, but a discerning character notes that he only does that when other people are watching.

Versus Spike leaving flowers for Joyce, but no card, so it's obviously not to get on Buffy's good side.


You always make me think more about my own motives and beliefs :D Yay! You too :D

[meridian_rose]

The Spike example is perfect, a good deed done for it's own sake, and not because someone else is watching or to get on Buffy's good side.

That said. I would be upset if our heroine finds out about his past, that he lied to her, and decides it doesn't matter ;
As far as I can make out, he's already reformed in that he's given up his powers at great risk, though he's still got to come clean for the relationship to be real for the girl [Katy]. But if she rejects him outright, then his attempt to be good was for nothing.
I'm waiting for the final episodes to air before I write the angst piece, hoping for more detail, but I don't know how it will play out; I want Katy to find out and to be upset, but to ultimately work through it - though I suppose this would be a very real relationship to have onscreen!
Because otherwise, no matter what a villain does, he's doomed to a life of misery or may as well revert to his previous bad behaviour - his worst views on humanity reaffirmed.

This sort of ties into a trope I really dislike. The King Kong 'Beauty killed the beast' is the first time I remember seeing it and it really affected me. The 'Redemption Equals Death' Trope [I won't link to it, because TVTropes is a timesucker; that the villain can fall in love and try to change, but he's killed, usually saving the damsel or hero. This is usually so the woman can marry the hero. Still, I think it's a terrible example to set; once you've done something bad, death is your only hope of redemption. Along with 'love is deadly unless you're the damsel or the hero'.

Interestingly this started out as a sideplot; like other shows I'm more interested in the sidekicks and their stories than the named heroes :D It probably helps that Katy is a geek with an interest in comic books, making her easier for me to relate to.

Something that appeals with LotS is the Breath of Life; Darken can have a heroic sacrificial death and yet live to fight another day ;D

[hrhrionastar.livejournal.com]

The 'Redemption Equals Death' Trope [I won't link to it, because TVTropes is a timesucker; that the villain can fall in love and try to change, but he's killed, usually saving the damsel or hero. Ugh, I know - I hate that, too. I guess I was thinking more that shows often skimp on the necessary dealing with issues, in favor of a flashy ending (R/K in LotS, perhaps). The road to redemption is rocky, but not completely impossible, or what's the point, as you say, of villains ever reforming?

Something that appeals with LotS is the Breath of Life; Darken can have a heroic sacrificial death and yet live to fight another day ;D Ooh, that is a nice one - and an excellent use for the Breath of Life, IMO :D

luke/leia, richard/kahlan

[meridian_rose]

I think I really hate the 'Redemption Equals Death' trope because I usually find the anti-heroes and villains way more interesting and attractive than the heroes. I love that in 'Star Wars' Leia marries the pirate anti-hero, even if a this mostly happens only because the hero turns out to be her brother :P

If LotS had continued the Star Wars parallels a bit further - though they didn't, thankfully, make Darken Richard's father as per the bookverse - this would mean Kahlan and Richard were siblings. Hence no Epic Love. Leaving Kahlan free to find someone else - a reformed Darken, perhaps? [still semi incestous thought] Cara? - to be with.
If I had an incest option for the angst_bingo I think I'd write that...I may have to write it anyway.

Re: luke/leia, richard/kahlan

[hrhrionastar.livejournal.com]

If LotS had continued the Star Wars parallels a bit further - though they didn't, thankfully, make Darken Richard's father as per the bookverse - this would mean Kahlan and Richard were siblings. Hence no Epic Love. Ooh, full of issues - especially if they've already been going on about how tragic the situation is. For some reason this reminded me of Pris's suggestion of dark Darken/Jennsen...

Ooh, and if Kahlan is free to be with Cara, Darken, or (why not?) both, then Richard can end up with Nicci! Ah, in a perfect world...;D (Those are seriously some of my favorite ships ;D)

If I had an incest option for the angst_bingo I think I'd write that...I may have to write it anyway. Go for it :D

[ivanolix.livejournal.com]

So, perhaps it's not romance I dislike, just a particular subset that makes up the majority of published genre romance fiction.

*nods* Same here. I have to have something more than just the fluffy emotions and the formula. Oh, and thank you for the rec :3

[meridian_rose]

Yes, the more I think on it, the more it's not the romance but the inevitability of the end result; I prefer that books and movies stop after the mutual love is acknowledged, before the marriage and babies. That way I can pretend they lived happily together without a wedding and with pets rather than kids :P

You're welcome :D It was exactly the sort of sexually charged scene that I enjoy.

[dorothydeath.livejournal.com]

It's a very interesting observation. The fun part is I never realized that I have the same problems with romance until now...

And the reason why I just can't ship Richard/Kahlan is suddenly very clear to me.

We're told they have this Epic True Love. But for me true love is pain, suffering, passion, despair, sacrifice and, yes, issues. A lot of deep dark personal issues that you must deal with in order to be with the one you love. And I don't see any of it in R/K relationship. Actually I don't see anything there at all. They keep telling themselves they in love but I'm not sure they even know each other on a personal level... It's like they're trying too hard to convince themselves so they wouldn't have to deal with the emptiness of their "feelings".
Kahlan loves the idea of serving the Seeker more than Richard himself. And Richard takes her for granted almost all of the time. But they don't see it. How's that?
And I can't remember any of them ever addressing their problems beside this "How can one have sexy tiemz with a Confessor without consequences?" stuff.

"I love you. You love me. Our love is Epic" feels very boring to me.
I want to know why and how, I want self-awareness and analysis, unexpected revelations, struggle, doubts, fears and difficult choices. I believe that it's not our words that define us but our actions. And I want these actions. And I want author to understand that every move their characters make define them and I want author to deal with it.

Is it too much to ask? It seems like indeed it is. Because I don't see much of it outside our darkling part of the fandom lately. Not in books, not in movies, not on tv...

Maybe it's just bad luck...

Sorry. My ramblings got a little bit longer than I expected.

I'm just happy I've met so many wonderful people who like to get to the bottom of things. ^_^


Thank you for this note. It was very thought-provoking. =)

[meridian_rose]

Thanks for dropping in and adding to the discussion :D

For me it's not that True Love is pain, it's that True Love is not without pain - a subtle but important difference. It absolutely does have issues though. And I agree completely; it often seems that Confessor/Seeker is more important then Kahlan/Richard.
Somehow Epic Love is incredibly boring. Perhaps because it is predestined, and like my other issues with romance, inevitable.

[dorothydeath.livejournal.com]

True Love is pain, it's that True Love is not without pain
Yes. I think that's what I meant, too... I just didn't word it quite right.

Perhaps because it is predestined, and like my other issues with romance, inevitable.
And ultimately that means that whatever you do is fine. You can hurt and offend your "destined one" all you like - all will be forgiven/forgotten/ignored.
Creepy.

[eternal-moonie.livejournal.com]

Very interesting hon! I love it!!

[meridian_rose]

thank you :D ♥